May 9, 2010
The Norco spent last year in the garage mostly, but i'm dusting it off and getting her back on the road !
First thing was to open the motor and inspect the inside, i rode this thing in alot of rain and pushed it hard while it ran..
There was a post last week on Endless Sphere about opening hub motors, some suggested knives, chisels, hammers and other brutal methods.. a 3 Jaw Gear Puller is the tool to get this done easily.
I removed the cover bolts from the side i wanted to remove ( the wire side ) .. and then flipped it over and installed the puller.
Notice where the legs hold to the motor at the spoke flange.
Stator removed, everything is dry, no major rust and no chipped magnets..
Those phase wires however, have to go !
I picked up a roll of 12 gauge teflon wire a while back just for this reason.
Left old ( 14g ? ) .... Right = New 12 gauge !
Out with the old !
In with the new !
That's where i'm at tonight, I picked up some high quality bearings to replace the originals while i'm at it.
For the wires to fit and the bearing to get on there i'm going to have to use my Dremel and grind out some axle material so i can make some room.. that's a tomorrow thing !
May 10 , 2010
3 x 12g teflon wire + shrink = too much to fit in the original space with the hall wires.
And the bearings. .. see on the right ( old one ) and on the left ( new )
The motor covers that the bearings fit into are a VERY loose fit, so much that the bearings creep out of the covers and one side was barely supporting the motor
I mixed up a small batch of JB weld and coated the outside of the bearing very lightly then popped them in !
Next is the disk brake, I made 2 of the crystalyte 8" disk brake adapters , round file and elbow grease required doohickies.. one is on my chopper, and the other was still on my old 406/409 motor. Went digging in the parts room and found the old beast..
Now, to get the thing off the motor was interesting, being subjected to braking forces it's wedged on tight onto the threads and not too willing to come off.
Piece of angle iron, and a hammer got it done
Now for a fresh tire, and into the norco it goes !
Last night i pulled the norco from my dusty garage and parked it in my kitchen/work area. ( yes.. i'm single ). Replaced the rear freewheel again with a single speed.
Today i bolted the motor to the bike and adjusted the rear disk caliper, then removed the nylon block that supported the 72v 20ah of LiMn i previously had on there.. I'm trying to keep things as light and compact as possible this time around.
I'm going with 24S 5ah Lipo this year, yes, that's 100v 5ah in a clyte 409 and 20" rim !
June 5 , 2010
So next step was to test the motor.... I have one controller left from a batch i sent to an ES member from onatario ( Thanks R.K ! ) for fet mods to 4110's.. I figure 100v x 40 amps in a clyte 4 series is about right for my needs.
Pissing rain today, but went in the garage and stripped my toy ( spring cleaning gimme bike with a rear 407 in 16" rim ) from it's controller.
The hall connector on the controller was a 5 pin Mini-xlr i love so much, but look thru my stash of parts all i could i was unable to find a matching male connector, i eyeballed my collection of new motors with wire cutters in hand .. but in the end i came to my senses and soldered on matching connectors of a different variety from 6pin CA type i had male/female on hand..
So wired the motor to the controller, next was the throttle.. oh man.. connector standards suck when you buy from different sources.. i have a box of throttles with 3 pin connectors but the controller has a 4 pin... .. damit..... so close to a test but yet so far........
Dig and dig and dig thru my parts bins for a matching connector.. no luck.. i'm about to start cutting to install andersons and BAM.. i find a 4 pin thumb throttle !!!!! woot !
Finally hooked it all up for a test and chaching .. it runs !
Maaaaaaaan this thing kicks ass !!!! I freakin love it !
Just got back from test ride no.1 ! wires hanging out all over the place, tape , etc.. i looked like a terrorist but people around here are used to my shananigans by now..
No buzz, no rattle, no zing, the new bearings took care of all that, smooooth as a baby's ass she is..
thumb throttle still sucks, i thought i might like it after being on half twist for years but nope.. don't like the thumb at all, cut snip and splicing a half twist on there tonight.
I can now soften up the rear shock, with 20+ lbs less on the back she's once again in FS heaven. woot !
5 minutes of fun = 50 celcius motor ! Warm, but well within the limits, i was going to drill it out for air cooling but i prefer keeping it water resistant so it will either fly or fry.
I took the Chaos to work this morning !! in all it's glory with controller taped to the rear racks and 100v 5ah of lipo in my backpack..
The 409 rpm/v is so low that even at 100v the top speed is reasonable and usefull at full throttle i'm only drawing 10 amps or so ! so 1000w at roughly 55 km/h is perfect !
Oh how sweet it is to slam pot holes at full speed and barely feel it !.. on the BMX i'm holding on for deal life but on the Norco i just fly right across lol..
Deec, yes, the dropouts have been reamed out good by an X5 but the 409 being a front wheel motor with threaded covers fits perfectly in the drops so no streching and no compression, big fat washers for a good clamping surface area makes it stay put.. i totally need torque arms but i'm not there yet ( however i'm riding it anyways lol.. ) and i'm not gentle on the throttle either.
Used 2.5ah for the trip to work and back home, that's 50 % DOD on the lipo = Ideal
while ago, i got my hands on a stash of these black ABS type plastic panels, they are cutouts from side-by-side ATV cabins, one side is flat, the other is dimpled anti-scratch type finish..
Cut some 50mm strips to seperate the packs and provide support..
Using a big wood clamp to compress the packs and square them up, secured the whole thing using nylon filament tape, this stuff is strong and does not strech.
I did not go ape shit with the compression, just light finger tight, tighest i dared go on the top was 220mm once squared up so that's how it went down..
Hot glued the edges only and one small strip down the middle seperator, i figure if/when i have to open up the box to swap a pack i can, without too much fuss.. I've built some packs in the past that were too hard to service because i went crazy with the hot glue, no sense in that.. a dab will do in just the right places.
you can see the textured side in this picture. Only reason i put this side out is that the material has a very slight bow to it and i wanted the bow inward pulling the edges into the ends..
There you go.
24 cell ( 100v ) 5ah
Hot glue bonds ok to ABS, not great, but good, at least good enough to keep things in place while i muscled the tape on there. This pack is all i'm going to bolt on the rear rack, controller goes on the other side. If i ever want to go for an extended ride i will either bring the charger with me or carry a 2nd 5ah pack in a backpack.
June 18 , 2010
Yesterday i started out with a scrap piece of plastic, i wanted to try bending a fairly large piece to see how it would work out.. surprisingly it went very well.
The ABS does not bubble like polycarbonate does, it just gets soft and formable..
will be something like this.
today, was time to cut a strip long enough to bend all the way around the 2 racks..
Used the table saw for this, when cutting ABS with a table saw, wear eye protection and gloves !!!.. hot melty plastic sticks to skin.. ouch..
Bent a 10mm lip, then for the 2nd bend i had to get creative with angle aluminum pieces and clamps....
I found out that to get a tight bend you have to heat both sides of the sheet, otherwise you get a rouned corner instead of a sharp one
Since i'm getting rid of the big block of nylon that used to hold the 2 pipes together, i replaced it with a wodden block and filament tape to keep the whole thing secure..
Still needs to be strapped down properly, but electrical tape worked well enough for the pedal only test, no more heel hitting the packs like before, and the pack is far enough up to not hit the rear wheel when the suspension goes way down... .. yeah baby !!!
Replacing this : ( should show 40 lbs with the 2 lb Nylon block not on the scale.. )
72v 20ah LiMn
7.4 lbs of LiPo !! 100v 5ah
Cut a backing plate with recesses for the wires to fit into..
Now, tonight i'm fixing up the throttle, going back to half grip twist, and then i have to figure out how the hell i'm going to wire up the packs for charging.....
I want to charge each group of 6 cells with the Turngy 6x4 charger and run the controller at 100v.. so i need Y taps on each pack... not sure how i'm going to do that yet.
June 19 , 2010
So this morning i finished the wiring on the Chaos and headed out for a ride.... aw man this thing is sweeeeeet..... top speed on level ground is 55 km/h and that's fast enough for me, but at 100v it pulls up to that speed like a champ.
The clyte 4 series may be old tech but they are without a doubt the most quiet hub motor made, it feels different than the 9C at low speed with pulses of power vs the constant bzzzzzz of the 9c motors.... and much lighter than the X5's.. all around good motors when you volt them up proper..
Went for a 3ah ride at wich point i notice the voltage drop like a brick all of a sudden.. .. i was holding 90v, then 87, then 82 a minute later 70v .. beign a few hundred meters from home base i pedal it home.
I checked my calibration before heading off and all the packs were charged to 4.1v + per cell so i really was expecting more range.. but 3ah ????... so i quickly get my HK battery medic and check things out.. pack 1, 2 and 4 all at 3.7x volts, pack 3 was 2.x and 1.x volts !!!!!!
Damit.. put a 1 amp charge on it to bring cells to 3v.. in the driveway away from flamable things.. keeping a VERY close eye on things.. IR temp meter says this pack is 40 celcius and the other 3 packs are at 33c ( hot sunny day today.. ambient 30c )
Will complete the charge tomorrow and see what's going on..
June 21 , 2010
The pack survived the charge cycle, and amazingly, still almost perfectly ballanced !!!
It's very possible that the issue was user related, i often have too many things going on at the same time and may have ended the charge cycle prematurely on that one pack, i'm still finishing up the turnigy 4x6 charger wires and in the future will be charging all 4 packs at the same time to prevent such things from happening.
These lipo's are more abuse tolerant than i expected, i still treat them as firecrackers but am impressed at this point by how well they take mis-treatment..
I have a CA on the handlebars and keep a very close eye on voltage ( always do ), it's very aparent when 1 cell drops out, VERY obvious when a pack is empty ! lol..
Yes, 40 amps on a 5ah pack so voltage sag is not a problem using 20C cells..
Chaos (2) (3) (4) (5) 6 (7)