RC - page2
Sep 13 - 2009
Mounted 2 pieces of angle aluminum, one to each side of the foot..
what i was refering to earlier.. don't grab the thing like this !
Notice the space between the belt and those teeth ?.. well. just enough to wedge a fingernail inbetween !! ( s.o.b that hurts )
This gives me mounting surface on both sides of the frame.. and withing the cranks.. and " just " ..
Of course, these aluminum angle plates are in the way of the chain, so got to make some room.. Using my Dremel scroll saw..
Sep 7 - 2009
A bit more progress to report.. slow going.. but it's like wheel building. my 1st took me a whole weekend of swearing but now i can lace a hub in 1 hour flat !
Primitive and limited tools, but gets the job done !
Found a piece of stainless, not sure what gauge, but very thick. i can just barely flex a 12" piece..
Precision work with an angle grinder.. uhm.. well.. lets just say.. it will work good enough for now.
Had to cut a slot for the chain, had it just right, but not wide enough, while widening a slip of the bench clamp made the hole a big longer, to grind it smooth made matters worse.. etc etc etc. next thing you know.. . I will re-do this once i get the thing mounted and tested.
Drilled 4 holes and mounted the angle aluminum to the SS plate, this way i can use this to mount onto the frame without having to hold up the whole motor for mockup.. Looks good from far away.. but far from looking good hehe..
The empty hole is where the threaded rod will go between the motor chain and the frame.. it's going to be very very very close but by my eyeball-calculations it will fit !
Dying to take it for a ride... but more work to do.. however !!! the motor is now attached to the bike !!!!!!!
Other side. ( yeah that is indeed some rust on there, not a problem tho, that i can deal with easily !!! )
The bigger 2nd stage sproket rusted out early on, i plan to buff it out good and wax coat it once i get the rest of the chores done.. right now i just want to get this up and running for a test ride.. but before i get to do that i have to ream out the chain slot a bit wider, and make 2 chain tensioners (1 for the fw to chainrnig, and 1 for the main chain ) then wire it all up.... will likely start off on 24v and ramp it up if everything holds together..
Sep 15 - 2009
Got chain no.1 tensioned !
with flat piece of aluminum, cut, grind, bend..
For the other chain.. i kept the broken Axiom chain tensioner from my Norco and the spring is broken inside ( bend that locks it in place so it don't spin free ) however, in reverse it still jams in there and springs..
so i dug thru my mountain of various parts and managed to find the same thread pattern of all things.. on a ceiling electrical box plate !!! i think this came from a chandelier i tore apart a long time ago !! .. and my mother calls me a pack rat.. ha.
Sep 14 - 2009
Small update, got the 2nd chain mounted and went for a pedal test, so far so good ! .. Started work on chain tensioners that are going to be required, even with half link chains you can't get them tight enough to work eithout tensioners.. grrrr.. i have most of the parts i need in my parts stash, bearinged rollers and various springs, hopefully get that sorted out tomorrow night.
Popped a few wheelies and intentionally landed hard to test the bracket, so far so good, everything is still in line and solid.. for now...
Sep 19 - 2009
Sep 19 - 2009
350w no load !!!! at 36v !
24v road test !
Fun ! but there are bugs to be worked out . cutouts on LVC detection ( 2 beeps ) . i need to dimple the motor shaft and loctite the set screws,
Rather loud ( compared to all hub motors i have used , like.. ALOT louder ..) but not unpleasant like the cyclone 500w i hated so much.. forget stealth when on this bike !! people KNOW it's motorized ! lol....
Need to fab up an ankle guard, this sucker is dangerous !!!! if the ride don't make your heart race, the whipping chains surely will !
I need to get working on a 15 cell PSI.. ( too bad 16 is too much, i already have one done up for the BMX ....but not a big job and easy to do.. )
More, including video tonight or tomorrow !! i promise
Running at 36v with wheel off the ground, the belt gets to hand quesstimate of 40 to 45 celcius within 30 seconds
Sep 20 - 2009
Building a 6 pack !
14 cells instead of 15 just for convenience, i want to keep the cells in pairs as this pack will be passed along to a different bike next year when i switch to LiPo for the RC bike.
Cut the original Tidal Force kick stand down to size for my 20" rear so no more threading clamps to keep the bike upright.
Then i take the freewheel bolts off to add a spacer for the outside 48t, the chains are too close to each other, the pins on the chains are showing signs of rubbing.. don't need much, like 1mm ..
14 cells gives me 47v, 45v or so under load, good enough for the next few months until snow falls
The throttle box has caps built in so as long as the wires from the throttle box to the controller are short ( 10g and 10" worth ) the run from the throttle box to my backpack can be long without issues..
I'm using anderson PP45's with 10g wire instead of PP75's, . ( the 75's are considerably bigger !! .. like WAY bigger ).. just not convenient as all my stuff(chargers, etc ) is PP30/45 standard.
Got to it this morning..
Above, the lego blocks make assembly of round cells a walk in the park !!!
Cycling the pack on the bench ( new cells ) before the road test tomorrow !
I need to hook up the Castle Creation usb programmer and turn off the LVC..
I added washers to the outside chainring, that gives me space between the chains, to my delightful surprise this eliminated a portion of the noise from the system !!!! chain zipping against each other was a factor... now my chainring and rear ENO don't line up perfectly, however it should work fine i think..
Below, I don't know if this will do it or not.. but i dimpled the motor shaft so the set screws recess further into the shaft.. added blue loctite
Sep 21 2009
IT'S ALIVE !!!!!
I threw myself off the seat once ( gotta be careful on startup with a 20" rear wheel and 24 front !!!)
Did my usual uphill villa run, burned up 5.5ah doing it !!!!!
Temperatures : By the time i got off the bike, got into the house, found my digital IR thermometer and ran back outside..
Battery temp in backpack : 40 celcius
Controller : 36 celcius
Motor : 75 CELCIUS !!!!! ( I lost my fingerprints !!!)
I set the LVC to 30v so no more controller shutdown on this ride , i'm getting 96 peak amps on the CA meter and cruising at 30 to 40 amps, voltage into the low 40's under load.
Gearing, oh boy, can i ever gear this thing way more down.. i started in lowest possible ( hill mode ) on the NuVinci, ramping up the gear range you can hear the motor bog down for a moment then speed proportionally comes up, will re-charge and do again with GPS on board..
Will take Video camera on next run this afternoon !
Alright.. we have some data to share !!!!
I'm stuck charging the 6 cells at 2 amps so a fillup takes a while, if i can tweak one of my 8 cell soneils to charge 6 cells it would be awsome.. will take one apart tonight to see if there are adjustment pots..
So, on a full charge, with no regard for efficienty, full throttle and away we go..
max speed 59.7 km/h
average speed 37 km/h
8 ah !
Battery temps : 50 celcius
Motor temps : 90 celcius !! ( measured on black aluminum face plate from the drive as the silver on the motor deflects the IR reading )
max speed was while going down hill ramping up the gear range, never got to the max as i was drawing 96 amps for quite a number of seconds at a time, motor makes one very sweet growl/whine at this power output....
I've been biting my tonge until this moment, but here goes an honest comment, imo, my 72v X5304 hub motor in a 20" wheel at 50 amps will keep up with this RC bike !!!!! and i would double the range on the same amount of power ! We will line them up tomorrow at the end of the street and see how it goes !
Also, tomorrow i'm swapping the 18t eno for a 16t going to the cranks. If i can get the adapter out of the 18t that is..
:::: VIDEO :::
Sep 22 2009
So after a few runs and some data readings, it's clear that this bike is not my most efficient ride, if i drove it sensibly it would be good but what's the fun in that ?.. pushed hard the way i built it to run, it's not efficient but it is powerfull !
Now, one thing i have to point out here, i don't mind feeding the beast a big meal ( ah ) if i have to, all i need is a 20 km range really.. if the whole system holds up to my abuse and does not fall apart, i will gladly trade efficiency for reliability..
I'm just so used to hub motors this is all new to me and feels weird..
Oh , i also figured how how to accelerate charging of my 6 pack !!.. if i set my Thunder Power charger to 5 cells LiPo i get 21v, that's 3.5v per cell for the PSI's.. the 2ah VP chargers can top them off from there for a 2 hr charge max.. acceptable !
!ER%G!#$%.... helmet on, camera running, off i go.. no more than 10 ft and something is " wrong " ... slippage...I look down and the final 18t freewheel is not turnnig around.. set screw issue....
got it off and dimpled the shaft.... take 2 ...
With ENO off, inspection reveals the other side is also slipping...( on the 2nd stage chain, bigger proket opposite ENO... dimpling that too !
In that earlier video, it was full throttle all the way, the RPM varies according to the gear range, cruising on the flats lowest possible gear, full throttle is 40 to 45 amps.. and 40 km/h
On the return trip, wind at my back, slight grade downhill most of the way, traffic goes 60 km/h in this zone, and i'm following traffic ! You can hear the lower RPM as i loaded the motor more with 60 amps constant, and it will pull all sorts of crazy amps if i gear up some as i'm only using half the nuvinci's range right now.... but i'm pushing it enough for now..
My battery is the limitting factor , 10ah of PSI pushed at 100 amps ( 10C ) gets hot.. and in that 9 minute video i burned up 7ah ! .. i'm thinking 25ah worth of LiPo should do the trick..
You don't know quiet until you ride a Hub Motor.. at speed you simply can't hear a hub, dead silent( compared to wind in your face ) .. this thing is LOUD.. but a good loud.. I'm getting used to the scream.. growing on me a bit..
Sep 23 2009
Last few steps for the season will be to tidy up the wiring, i'm really tempted to order up some LiPo but damn winter is very near, i would prefer getting fresh cells at the start of the 2010 season, I may bolt up a rear rack on this rig and double up the capacity for now, at 20ah voltage sag won't be so bag and the range would make it usable for in city trips.. I'm gonig to try a low speed test this afternoon, keeping the amps below 40 and see how i make out..
Oct 8 - 2009
Update on RC bike, you know some days how any project you tackle just works out easily and successfully ?.. well today is not one of those days.
Recent problem has been motor/chainring stage rubbing the frame at the swingarm, after a few hard runs parts are bedding in ( cranks onto bottom bracket ) and the 1mm gap i had for the chain is not that wide anymore.. so i got a new slimmer chain, shimano, break the half link chain off, put shimano on and of course.. not a half link it's either one link too long and my tensioner won't work, or too short and can't be connected... grrrr..
Then i decide to swap the 18t ENO for a 16t to reduce the gearing even more, uhm, that aluminum adapter is really.. and i mean " REALLY " wedged in there... I 1st clamped it in a vice, and tried the pin and hammer method, i managed to mangle some metal pretty good..
Then i fabbed up a tool from a 30mm socket ( had to file it down some more, this was made to remove the swingarm on my Honda 250SX trike as the stock honda tool is like 300 $ ), used a big 3/8" bolt and cranked down the set screws, clamped the bolt in a vice
But nope.. now that i've rounded the edges of the ENO with the pin and hammer failure, i don't get good enough grab to spin it out with the tool.. doh..
next step was a PM to matt for a new adapter ! lol
Oct 16 - 2009
Getting cold out here but no snow yet !! .. so projects continue !
After a long and arduous search i finally found my original adapter, man o man i went thru the entire house and garage about 10 times before i found it .. but i did !!
Found a friend of a friend with a lathe who was able to turn down the piece in order to fit it inside the 16t ENO.. woooot !
Another issue to sort out is the Cycle Analyst, i'm currently using an inline model with the original shunt, they are ok for X5's at 50 amps but this thing needs juice and lots of it so i need to beef up the shunt...
Got this beauty with my Agni 95 Reinforced motor and curtis controller, ( Thank you Bikeraider !!! ) rated at 500 amps ! I have no clue how to wire this up yet but it's on the list for this weekend !
Going to either double Anderson PP45's or the bigger PP75 , because the single run of 10 gauge from the backpack is not adequate..
Got some chain rub issues, this one will be easy to fix for now.. " The frame gets it ! " I think i'm going to cut a notch in the frame and wedge and JB Weld a piece of nylon material in there, I noticed on the last ride that the seat was vibrating a bit more than before, chain links grinding away .. I'll make room !!!
Also going from a 48t to a 40t chainring l.. That should gear me down a good bit.... makes pedaling gear range even further out of wack.. but hell, not as if i plan to pedal at 50 km/h !
Oct 18 - 2009
Up late last night with a bottle of red wine, nice relaxing saturday afternoon all to myself .. just awsome..
I was going to bolt on the 16t ENO and go for a test, but i already know i need more reduction so the chainrings are next..
The 40t i have on hand is a 4 hole, i need 5.. so using the biggest drill bit i have on hand clamped both rings together using 1 existing hole, and made 4 more to match the IPS pattern.
Darn thing has a recessed portion around the bolt holes, now that i've changed the pattern they are in the way of a flush mount..grrrr....
Used my drill press as an end mill with a dremel routing bit.. cranked up the deck to the right height and worked it into shape.
To my surprise, this worked quite well !
So from 18t to 16t on the 3rd stage
And 48t to 40t on the 4th
Next is to remove some links from the chains..
Found another problem to deal with, the rear chain tensioner won't work no more, the smaller chainring brings the chain too close to the rear frame, if i could get one more link out ( like 2mm is all i need, but it won't go... )re-working that now..
Can't wait to see how much of a difference this makes, should allow me to use the full range of the NuVinci, i'm hoping the cvt is more efficient in the 1:1 zone.. Either way, efficiency is not all that much of a concern here, top priority is smoothness and reliability, efficiency gets fixed with more batteries, easy peazy..
Front chain tensioner also needed to be spring loaded as my sprokets are not perfectly centered this makes a tight/loose/tight/loose chain problem, I cut a piece of aluminum, nylock nut, the bag of springs i picked up a while ago came in handy .. ( my neighbor's wife scoffed at me when i picked up this bag of springs, " wtf are you going to do with that now.. " .. ! HA ! )
And the rear, this is going to need some beefing up, it held up for a while during my test ride but the chain went off the guide wheel..
Having both tensioners spring loaded made a huge difference in the system smoothness factor, no more tight spots in the crank rotation !
No load now at 300w ! ( from 400w before )
With rear brakes ( needs caliper ) and frame mounted LiPo ( am thinking 20ah min. ) this rig will be a wheelie machine !
Bottom line, the lower gearing helps a great deal !!!! alot better throttle range and the power spikes to 96 amps when you snap the throttle then settles down quickly as the motor rev's up fast.. it's dark outside and daaaaamn cold so the test was short..
Next step, playing around with the CC setings...
Below is the Shunt information i am taking from a post on the endless sphere forum :
Quote " Oatnet : "
When you cut the cable of your shunt-based CA, you will find the same (4) wires (Orange/Orange-white/Blue/Blue-white) used by the high-current CA, and you can use the diagram below to wire it.
To get accurate readings you would want to set the rShunt value in the advanced menu of the CycleAnalyst. Assuming this is a 500A 50mV shunt like I used on the VW Bus, Justin told me: "For a 500A 50mV shunt, you would want to set the RShunt value in the high range mode to 0.1000 mOhm". The standard CA is only good up to 100v, beyond that you need the CA-HC High current model.
Rather than terminating the CA wires directly to the shunt, I would recommend putting a connector in the middle, and if you use a standard CA connector you can use the shunt on any 6-wire Cycleanalyst too. I cut the wires on my Shunt-base CA so I could run them through the channels in TidalForce frames (too small for the actual shunt) and wired a standard 6-wire CycleAnalyst connector between them. Now I can plug the original CA shunt to any Direct-connect CA (CA-DP/DPS), set the rShunt value to 1.399, and viola the 6-wire CA is converted to a inline shunt CA. I can also use my inline shunt CA on any direct-connect controller.
Here is a wiring guide for connecting a shunt to a CA connector, I have a 80-90 CA connectors left if you need some.
CA connector <--> Shunt Wiring
1) Vbatt (red) <--> Orange
2) D gnd (black) <--> Blue-Striped
3) A gnd (blue) <--> Blue
4) Isense (white) <--> Orange Striped
5) Hall (yellow) <--> NULL
6) Ebrake (green) <--> NULL
"" END QUOTE ""
Oct 24 - 2009
Ordered 2 of the 200amp and 2 of the 100 amp shunts From Here, the one 500amp i have now is way overkill ( but mainly too freakin heavy !! ) i'm hoping the 200 amp is half the weight.
A few days ago i decided to re-build a 24v pack of PSI cells i got from a guy in Japan, this pack is originally form Cyclone Taiwan, assembled with shipping tape !!! .. yikes..
For the Castle controller, the BMS has to go.. and this pack will allow me to keep my existing 48v pack in a backpack intact so i can run 2 of the high-powered ebikes at the same time ! ( Video chase bike ! )
So i start to cut the tape, remove nuts, remove copper bus bars, 2 cells removed and 6 to go.. but as more tape gets cut, i have BMS wires dangling around, and the cells are like wet noodles in a vertical pile.. 2 bus bars momentarily made contact and i heard a PFffffffssssssssssshhhhh....
PANIC MODE ----- >> grab the 1st tool i can reach and seperate the tabs ( thank god only the edges touched and was not a big contact patch.. ) stepped back.. contemplated running to the kitchen for the fire extinguisher.. but no drama........ i give it another 5 seconds.. nothing.... i tap the pack to see how hot it is and it's not " too " hot.. i grab that sucker and RUN for the side door !
( A maneuver i've perfected over the years !! )
Finished dis-assembly in the driveway !
Voila ! 12s pack with double 10g and 45amp powerpoles..
Single strand of 10 awg was not enough, resulting in voltage sag and excess heat.... i'm hoping this improves things..
All the 6 cells got to aprox 40 celcius, no worse than after a hard 10 minute ride on the bike.. and all showed 3.278 ~ 3.279v .. i checked the vents under the red and black end stickers and none vented..
Oct 28 2009
drilled holes thru the thick copper ends, bolted 2 x 10g leads, and put a similar ring terminal on the Fechter throttle box, going to wrap the shunt in tape and tape it to the bike, then ride the beast until snow starts to fall !
Right now the 14s pack is in my backpack with a fairly long leash, if the cells were frame mounted and hooked up with a very short run, the single 10g wire might do.. but things were getting soft in the backpack.. .. This bike will gladly pull 96 amps for as long as i keep the throttle pinned in med-high gear ( needs more reduction still ! ) .. and 50 amps at cruising.
Re-post of the video i made a while ago before the 48t to 40t chainring change.. * go to the 5 minute mark for the better portion, on the way back !
Nov 5 - 2009
My 100 and 200 amp shunts arrived today !
I will use the 200 amp.. Took the bike for a ride today in daylight, the 1:1 ratio on the chainring stage helped greatly, but i am now certain it still needs more reduction.
May have to go dual motor on this thing
Nov 10 , 2009
So tonight i re-did some of my wiring, installed a resistor inline with a 14g wire on the + side of the throttle box.. This is a way to prevent that big spark you get when powering up the controller, connect the negative ( - ) wire, then the resistor wire slowly allows the resistors to charge up in the controller, then i plug the main positive (+) to run the bike, no spark !
The double 10g wires i run from my backpack fill up the 45 amp powerpoles and no room to feed a 14g alongside for the resistor.. so i cut a notch from the jacket of one cable and soldered a 14g pigtail to it..
The 14 cell PSI pack is charging now, i think i'm going to try and get to work on the RC bike tomorrow !!!! ( the guys at work will get a kick out of this bike )
Nov 11 2009
Got to work !!! used 3.4ah ( my usual hub motor 48v BMXl uses 1.8 !!! )
I hope i make it back tonight tho.. the 2nd stage #25 chain is giving me trouble, not sure if it's a bad bearing or if the chain alignment is the issue, or if the 45t gear if warped but something is grinding/pulsating in there once she warms up... .....
Might be just me having a bad day at work, but the more i ride this bike the more i like my hub motors.......
Nov 15 2009
Ok.. so after some investiating, last time i took the drive apart to divot my shafts for the set screws i spaced everything to line up my chains perfectly, however, this left some shaft spaces between the sprokets and the bearings, the shafts creep to one side resulting in both chains gonig off-course and rap rap rap.....
Tried all i could to get the 2nd stage sproket off the shaft, nope, she's on there for good !! ( twisted my a T-handles for all i could without breaking them.. ) so i went to work on the chainring side.
Added a shim to the shaft..
Put the 16t eno back on and cha-ching, clean running chain !
Now.. next up is more testing and i've even gone to HK ( hobbyking.com ) and put a pile of lipo in the shopping cart, then came to my senses and backed out, too close to winter, must wait for next season before investing in more chargers, GaryG parts etc..
So.. i came up with a temporary solution...
This is my 4 year old LiMn packs, 36v 20ah each, they are 2C cells but with 40ah worth 2C is 80 amps.. 30lbs in a backpack is a bit much but will be good enough for now
This is last thursday at 7:50am !!! negative 5 celcius ( -5c )!!
Nov 16 2009
So tonight i loaded up the 36v 40ah pack in a backpack.. well.. that's just too much weight to have on one's shoulders but it did prove something interesting, at 36v and very modest throttle usage ( i know... NOT what i had in mind for this bike !!! ) it is alot more efficient of a system at 36v !
I ran up and down the street a pile of times at like 20% throttle adjusting the gear range and staring at the C.A. i can cruise on 20 amps up slight grade and 12 amps on level ground if i hold the throttle every so still.. more mileage to pile on and re-evaluate..
Chains are running nice and smooth btw !!! I love a quiet chain, i'm weird like that but any system vibration or ricketyrack drives me freakin batty...
Pure luck that the seat post on my Norco is the same as the TidalForce frame !!!!
Nov 19 2009
Today went good !
I sold my E-bmx last night so i'm now using the RC bike as my daily driver. the 36v 40ah pack is just the ticket as it gets me to work and back home on 12ah worth, that's good for these old packs. running on 34~36 v under load, not as zippy as the PSI at 44v but gets the job done for now.
The drive is settling in, chain has worn it's way clear of the frame !! nice slice of aluminum now gone near the bottom bracket but i'm not worried about it, plenty of meat left.
I find that running at aprox 75% throttle and adjusting the Nuvinci to keep myself in the 30 to 50 amp range works best, full throttle just burns up more amps needlessly.
One hell of an attention getter tho, like wow.. everywhere i go i'm stopped and interrogated about the bike, i've repeated myself so many times i now have a dialogue memorized lol..
On my way home, went thru the local nature park to test the drive on a paved ramp, as i get to the bottom of the hill ( aprox 50ft of very steep stuff ) i have to try and quantify this but lets just say most kids on bicyles stand on the pedals and make it up with a running start but 50% of those i've watched go up the hill get half way up and get off the bike to walk the rest of the way ( the type that have not grasped the concept of shifting gears before hitting the hill. )
Anyways.. i get to the bottom and on my left i spot a dozen kids on a school outing who by now have quit listening to the teacher and are staring at me with funny grins on their faces.. so of course i really don't want to snap a chain or stall up the hill.. so i roll up slowly to the hill and turn on the power.. zzzzzZZZZZZZzzZZZZZZ up i go in lowest possible gear range and 70 amps all the way to the top! phew !
On the BMX i could have gone up and down that hill on a wheelie and barely get a 2nd look.. on this bike it's complete oposite.
Needs Lipo.. i'm so itching to jump onboard.. must resist..*puts visa back in wallet